On a mild winter’s evening, two women sit in the dark corner of a bar in the West Village. Sitting on bar stools, they laugh, flirt, and sip their cocktails.

One of the women leans over, takes a sip, and says “I had my first sexual experience with a woman when I was 15.”

This was a statement I heard on my second date, with a woman named Jesse.

Many people are aware of the “rules” and scripts of heterosexual dating: a man and a woman go out to dinner, talk about their jobs, where they each grew up, where they’ve traveled. Maybe they will exchange some funny stories about college, or talk about their families. He will wait three days, then call or text her, she will casually accept a second date. Maybe on the third of fourth date, they’ll talk about their past relationships, and what they are looking for– relationship, a fling?

But, do lesbians follow these “rules?” Yes, and sometimes, no. While women will have the usual getting-to-know-you conversation on the first date or two, something else always seems to enter the conversation: being gay. It seems that lesbians, unlike heterosexuals, jump right into the personal conversations of sexuality, relationship history, and of course, coming out.

Elizabeth is now 27, but she was married to a man at 23. She and her husband were married for just under a year, because while married, she realized she was gay, subsequently separated from then later, divorced.. On her first dates with a particular woman, Liz says, “We both knew the other was divorced. We got into intricate details about getting divorced.”

She admits it felt like therapy, and that she was having a session with someone she hardly knew at the time.

When I asked about other dates with other woman, Liz says she talks about jobs, anecdotes, and “basic getting to know you stuff.” But then, it happens, coming out story-swapping.

“It is pretty innocuous to ask how long have you been out, usually followed by coming out stories.”

Jessica, 26 agrees with this pattern. Jessica started dating women this past summer, and finds herself having the “coming out conversations” on first or second dates.

“Even when the dates were bad, we would talk about dating, talk about being gay, and coming out…even if we weren’t connecting, we could talk about identity.”

Yes, even if the date is bad. I have been guilty of that as well. In November I went a boring, short coffee date with a woman whose name I can’t even recall now. The conversation was awkward, boring, and yet, we swapped coming out stories, how our families took it, and our relationship history. In just over an hour!

Jessica says she is the one who usually initiates the sexuality conversations because she feels new the gay world, and wants to learn.

“Two hetero people on a date is so run of the mill. Two gay people is something special. It shows you went through shit to get there.” She explains.

Coming out, and being gay requires courage, and insight, and it is interesting, she says.

In a way, sharing these kinds of personal details seems ideal. It can create a connection, a common bond between two women, who may have struggled with their sexual identity, overcome hardship, or just learned self-acceptance. And in many cases, that is true. However, Elizabeth thinks sharing such intimate details early on in the relationship create what she calls false intimacy.

When she goes out with women, she talks about her past relationships and family, and feels this false intimacy is built. It applies to the date or relationship (physically as well as personally).

It is nice, initially, because of the immediate intimacy, “but the other stuff is hard and takes much longer,” she says.

The intimacy that is felt so immediately can lead to those butterflies in your stomach, or in my case, swooning. Sex may come quickly, and this sense of really being with someone. But the other aspect of the relationship, such as normal conversation, really getting to know someone, and who they are, comes later.

Liz says that false intimacy is bad thing because she has ”Gone too far down the intimacy road, and had to backtrack because we didn’t really know each other.”

Every lesbian knows what this means. It is email, the phone call, the text-message that says “I like you, but…”

“But” being “I’m not ready,” or, “I need to slow down,” or, “I’m not over my ex-girlfriend,” and the classic “you’re not my type.” Then one (usually me) is left to wonder “then why did you hold me four hours? Why did we have sex? Why have we gone on four dates and you’ve met my friends?

Those questions, and concerns, fall under the fun and exciting realm of dating rules! “rules” being typical roles discussed over coffees, cocktails, TV, and in women’s magazines. The roles the scripts exists so we know how we are supposed to behave on dates, and in between s, so we do not seem desperate, clingy, too calm, and disinterested. Again, I ask Elizabeth and Jessica, do women handle those rules and roles differently?

These roles, or scripts, are meant as social guidelines for how we are supposed to behave on dates, and communicate, so we, as women do not seem desperate, or clingy, or too calm, and disinterested. But, generally, these rules and roles are portrayed in the media and popular culture as hetero-normative behavior.

Jessica says that when she dated men, she felt it was weird they didn’t discuss why they were there. It as assumed that the date would lead to a one-night “hook-up,” or a relationship.

When asked whether she ever discussed her past relationships with men on first or second dates, she said “No, that’s a no-no!”

Elizabeth had slightly different experiences. She was friends with each of her college boyfriends, for several months before they started dating. Once they were dating, the getting to know you period was easily skipped.

But, Elizabeth observes that there are certain roles that men and woman seem to assume. Such as the seeker and the one being found; the aggressive one or the passive one. In hetero-normative culture women are taught that men are the seekers, men are the aggressors, but lesbian culture changes that. Women can be aggressive or passive, seek you out, or be the ones waiting to be sought.

Women, just like men, can be the ones to ask another woman out.

“I always wondered about gender-roles, stupid rules that exist in hetero-world. I was sure if there existed in lesbian world… I was kind of surprised in the lesbian world there is structure,” says Elizabeth.

Jessica feels that now she is dating women, she has stopped caring about the rules she followed when dating men. She realized how much she was conforming to the rules of hetero-normative life, and dating women only magnified that.

Now, she says she doesn’t prescribe to scripts, or gender-roles. Recently, after going out with a woman, Jessica text-messaged her, and asked her out. Now it has been three months, and they are still together.

As for me and Jesse? Well, that was our last date. But it sure wasn’t the last time I will be having the conversation, while trying hard to fight false intimacy.